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1 Beaverton Politics- Chomsky Noam

What We Say Goes: Conversations on U.S. Power in a Changing World


What We Say Goes: Conversations on U.S. Power in a Changing World Cover

ISBN13: 9780805086713
ISBN10: 0805086714
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Chapter 1

James Traub, in the New York Times Magazine, writes, “Of course, treaties and norms dont restrain the outlaws. The prohibition on territorial aggression enshrined in the UN Charter didnt faze Saddam Hussein when he decided to forcibly annex Kuwait.” Then he adds, “When it comes to military force, the United States can, and will, act alone. But diplomacy depends on a united front.”1

As Traub knows very well, the United States is a leading outlaw state, totally unconstrained by international law, and it openly says so. What we say goes. The United States invaded Iraq, even though thats a radical violation of the United Nations Charter.

If he knows that, why doesnt he write it in the article?

If he wrote that, then he wouldnt be writing for the New York Times. There is a certain discipline that you have to meet. In a well-run society, you dont say things you know. You say things that are required for service to power.

That reminds me of the story of the emperor Alexander and his encounter with a pirate.

I dont know if it happened, but according to the account from Saint Augustine, a pirate was brought to Alexander, who asked him, How dare you molest the seas with your piracy? The pirate answered, How dare you molest the world? I have a small ship, so they call me a pirate. You have a great navy, so they call you an emperor. But youre molesting the whole world. Im doing almost nothing by comparison.2 Thats the way it works. The emperor is allowed to molest the world, but the pirate is considered a major criminal.

Eighteen Pakistani civilians were killed in a U.S. missile attack on Pakistan in January 2006. The New York Times, in an editorial, commented, “Those strikes were legitimately aimed at top fugitive leaders of Al Qaeda.”3

Thats because the New York Times agrees, and always has, that the United States should be an outlaw state. Thats not surprising. The United States has the right to use violence where it chooses, no matter what happens. If we hit the wrong people, we might say, “Sorry, we hit the wrong people.” But there should be no limits on the right of the United States to use force.

The Times and other liberal media outlets are exercised about domestic surveillance and invasions of privacy. Why doesnt that concern for law extend to the international arena?

Actually, the media are very concerned, just like James Traub, with violations of international law: when some enemy does it. So the policy is completely consistent. It should never be called a double standard. Its a single standard of subordination to power. Surveillance is bothersome to people in power. They dont like it. Powerful people dont want to have their e-mails read by Big Brother, so, yes, theyre kind of annoyed by surveillance. On the other hand, a gross violation of international law—what the Nuremberg Tribunal called “the supreme international crime” that “contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole”—for example, the invasion of Iraq, thats just fine.4

There is an interesting and important book, which naturally has hardly been reviewed, by two international law specialists, Howard Friel and Richard Falk, called The Record of the Paper. It happens to focus on the New York Times and its attitude toward international law, but only because of the papers importance.5 The rest of the press is the same. Falk and Friel point out that the practice has been consistent: if an enemy can be accused of violating international law, its a huge outrage. But when the United States does something, its as if it didnt happen. To take one example, they point out that in the seventy editorials on Iraq from September 11, 2001, to March 21, 2003, the invasion of Iraq, the words UN Charter and international law never appeared.6 Thats typical of a newspaper that believes the United States should be an outlaw state.

Martin Luther King Jr., in his April 4, 1967, Riverside Church speech, said, “Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their governments policy, especially in time of war.”7 Is that true?

You see that anywhere you look. Its obviously true in the United States. But was the United States “at war” in 1967? King suggests it was. Its an odd sense of being at war. The United States was attacking another country—in fact, it was attacking all of Indochina—but had not been attacked by anybody. So whats the war? It was just plain, outright aggression.

Howard Zinn, in his speech “The Problem Is Civil Obedience,” says civil disobedience is “not our problem. . . . Our problem is civil obedience,” people taking orders and not questioning. How do we confront that?8

Howard is quite right. Obedience and subordination to power are the major problem, not just here but everywhere. Its much more important here because the state is so powerful, so it matters more here than in Luxembourg, for example. But its the same problem.

We have models as to how to confront it. First of all, we have plenty of models from our own history. We also have examples from other parts of the hemisphere. For example, Bolivia and Haiti had democratic elections of a kind that we cant even conceive of in the United States. In Bolivia, were the candidates both rich guys who went to Yale and joined the Skull and Bones Society and ran on much the same program because theyre supported by the same corporations? No. The people of Bolivia elected someone from their own ranks, Evo Morales. Thats democracy. In Haiti, if Jean-Bertrand Aristide had not been expelled from the Caribbean by the United States in early 2004, its very likely that he would have won reelection in Haiti. In Haiti and Bolivia, people act in ways that enable them to participate in the democratic system. Here, we dont. Thats real obedience. The kind of disobedience thats needed is to re-create a functioning democracy. Its not a very radical idea.

Evo Moraless victory in Bolivia in December 2005 marks the first time an indigenous person has been elected to lead a country in South America.

Its particularly striking in Bolivia because the country has an indigenous majority. And you can be sure that the Pentagon and U.S. civilian planners are deeply concerned. Not only is Latin America falling out of our control, but for the first time the indigenous populations are entering the political arena, in substantial numbers. The indigenous population is also substantial in Peru and Ecuador, which are also big energy producers. Some groups in Latin America are even calling for the establishment of an Indian nation. They want control of their own resources. In fact, some of them dont even want those resources developed. Theyd rather have their own lives, not have their society and culture destroyed so that people can sit in traffic jams in New York. All this is a big threat to the United States. And its democracy, functioning in ways that by now we have agreed not to let happen here.

But we dont have to accept that. There have been plenty of times in the past when popular forces in the United States have caused great change. You mentioned Martin Luther King. He would be the first to tell you that he didnt act alone. He was part of a popular movement that made substantial achievements. King is greatly honored for having opposed racist sheriffs in Alabama. You hear all about that on Martin Luther King Day. But when he turned his attention to the problems of poverty and war, he was condemned. What was he doing when he was assassinated? He was supporting a strike of sanitation workers in Memphis and planning a Poor Peoples March on Washington. He wasnt praised for that, any more than he was praised for his rather tepid, delayed opposition to the Vietnam War. In fact, he was bitterly criticized.9

This isnt quantum physics. There are complexities and details. You have to learn a lot and get the data right, but the basic principles are so transparent, it takes a major effort not to perceive them.

Copyright © 2007 by Aviva Chomsky and David Barsamian. All rights reserved.

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adele hetzel, September 13, 2011 (view all comments by adele hetzel)
Chomsky is again right on the mark. If only our leaders had as much knowledge of history and applied it as well we would not be always at war.
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Product Details

Chomsky, Noam
Metropolitan Books
Barsamian, David
Chomsky, Noam, Et
Barsamian, David
Modern - 21st Century
General Political Science
World politics
United states
International Relations - General
Government - U.S. Government
World politics -- 1989-
United States--Foreign relations--2001-
International Relations
Politics-Political Science
Edition Description:
Trade Paper
American Empire Project
Publication Date:
Grade Level:
5 cds, 7 hours
5.35 x 5.6 x 0.78 in

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Related Subjects

Featured Titles » History and Social Science
History and Social Science » Politics » Chomsky Noam
History and Social Science » Politics » General
History and Social Science » Politics » Leftist Studies
History and Social Science » Politics » Political Science
History and Social Science » Politics » United States » Foreign Policy
History and Social Science » World History » General

What We Say Goes: Conversations on U.S. Power in a Changing World Used Trade Paper
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Product details 240 pages Metropolitan Books - English 9780805086713 Reviews:
"Synopsis" by ,
Following the New York Times bestseller Hegemony or Survival--an indispensable set of interviews on foreign policy and domestic issues with "America's most useful citizen" (Boston Globe)
"Synopsis" by ,
In this all new collection of conversations, Noam Chomsky explores the most immediate and urgent concerns: Iran's challenge to the United States, the deterioration of the Israel-Palestine conflict, the ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, the rise of China, and the growing power of the left in Latin America, as well as the Democratic victory in the U.S. midterm elections and its ramifications for the future.


As always, Chomsky presents his ideas clearly and accessibly, with uncompromising principle and clarifying insight. The latest audiobook from a long-established, trusted partnership, What we Say Goes shows once again that no interlocutor engages with Noam Chomsky more effectively than David Barsamian. These interviews confirm that Chomsky is an unparalleled resource for anyone seeking to understand our world today.

"Synopsis" by , In this new collection of conversations, "What We Say Goes" explores the most immediate and urgent concerns confronting America. As always, Chomsky presents his ideas vividly and accessibly, with uncompromising principle and clarifying insight.
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