PowellsBooks.Blog
Authors, readers, critics, media − and booksellers.

John Boyne has enjoyed a successful writing career that began in his early 20s, and now, nearly 20 years later, boasts 11 adult novels and 5 young adult novels, most notably The Boy in the Striped Pajamas. It is perhaps this breadth of experience that inspired him to turn a black mirror on ambition and the publishing world. The result is a darkly comic novel centered on Maurice Swift, a ruthlessly ambitious — yet curiously talentless — writer who will stop at nothing in his quest for admiration and fame. The Observer remarks that “in Maurice Swift, Boyne has given us an unforgettable protagonist, dangerous and irresistible in equal measure. The result is an ingeniously conceived novel that confirms Boyne as one of the most assured writers of his generation.” Sinister ambition may be a familiar trope, but A Ladder to the Sky is anything but, spanning the length of the 21st century and featuring altering points of view (including a clever literary cameo) and deft storytelling. The novel begs the question: Who really owns a story? We're thrilled to present this deliciously suspenseful novel as Indiespensable Volume 77.

Kate Laubernds: I read recently that you believe writers should enjoy the process of writing so that their enjoyment transfers onto the reader. It was such a thrill to read A Ladder to the Sky and I was thinking about that and wondering what it was like to write about Maurice and his antics.

John Boyne: [Laughs] Well, that’s a good word to use. It was fun to write because it was a different type of book than I’ve written recently. The last two novels I wrote were both set in Ireland and it was nice to get outside Ireland and write something that wasn’t really about society, or the church, or changes that have taken place in my own country. To write, instead, kind of a psychological drama, a thriller-type book, and to write about such a malevolent character, which I’ve never really done before, and see how far I could take that.

Kate: Many of your previous works have been historical novels that must have required quite a bit of research. Is doing research part of what you enjoy about the writing process? 

Boyne: In the past, when I’ve written historically based novels, I have had to do a lot of research which I tend to enjoy, but I’ve always chosen times or places that I’ve already been interested in and that I know a little bit about, so I usually have a basic foundation of knowledge on the subject. For this one I guess my research was 20 years of published novels, because I’m writing about the publishing industry and the things that go on there; in a way, my life was basically the research for this book. 

Kate: Can you talk about your inspiration for A Ladder to the Sky?

Boyne: It’s mostly about ambition, the things we do to succeed in life. We’ve all been young and ambitious; although we all wouldn’t do the things that Maurice would do! But I can remember what it was like to be a young, aspiring writer, wondering whether it was going to all work out for me or not. I just wanted to write about that and how far people may go to achieve their ambitions.

Kate: The story satirizes the publishing world; however, I noticed a lot of parallels to the wine industry, where I worked for a long time, and which is equally reliant upon prizes and criticism. Would you say that there’s ruthless ambition in most industries?

Boyne: I think so. I’m writing about the publishing industry because I know it, but it’s probably true of any industry. There’s always going to be gossip, there’s always going to be backbiting, there are always going to be people who use others to climb the ladder.

Kate: Do you think this dynamic applies to our personal lives as well?

Boyne: Yeah, in the sense that we tend to present ourselves as successful all the time. We talk about our success on social media and social media itself is based upon success, like “This is the amazing thing I’m doing right now!” or “This is the amazing place I’m in right now!” Maurice wants to connect himself to the world right now not just as a writer, but as a famous writer. 

Kate: Speaking of famous writers, you include Gore Vidal as a narrator. What inspired you to include him in the novel?

Boyne: I wanted one person who would see through Maurice, one person who wouldn’t be charmed by him, or seduced by him, or manipulated by him. And because there are no real writers in the book, everyone is fictional, I thought I would choose a real writer to play that role. I’ve always liked Gore Vidal’s work; I’ve read a lot of it. And he seemed like a very sharp, witty person who wouldn’t be easily taken in, so I thought it would be kind of fun to use his voice in that section. If you’re going to write like him you really have to raise your game, I think, so that everything you use is something you feel like he would say.

Kate: Were you nervous to include a voice like his considering how distinct and polished it is?

Boyne: Not nervous, but I knew it would be challenging to do it and that’s part of the process. You don’t want to make it too easy on yourself. That was the section that took the most rewriting in order to get it as good as I could make it.

Kate: I noticed some similarities between how critical Maurice is of other writers and Gore Vidal’s commentary on other writers, and I was wondering if you intended a connection there.

Boyne: Not really, to be honest. Maurice’s feelings are generally built out of envy when his career isn’t going well. Though, I suppose you could say that about some of the more snide remarks Gore Vidal made. But I didn’t intend a connection between the two. No. Maurice really is his own person.
Kate: What inspired you to write from different points of view?

Boyne: I thought it would be interesting for the reader to see Maurice through different people’s eyes. I knew I wanted to end with his voice, so that we would finally get to see who this person is. I liked the idea of him being sort of a mystery until we hear his voice. I’d never written that kind of narrative before, where different people contribute to the narrative voice. I think in each book you want to challenge yourself in some way and not just be easy on yourself, and it felt good to write like this.

Kate: I found it really interesting, especially in Edith’s case where she’s talking directly to Maurice. 

Boyne: Yeah, that second-person narrative is a difficult one. I don’t think you could fill an entire novel with it; I knew the length of that section would be limited to one narrator’s voice. There’s a nice little twist at the end, when you find out where she’s speaking from and how. I just thought it would be an interesting way to do it.

Kate: Becoming a successful writer seems to be the only thing Maurice cares about. I was wondering if his desire for fame accounts for his asexuality. 

Boyne: That’s not really essential to him. I wanted him to be asexual because that’s a kind of character you don’t read about very often in novels. And considering he’s so charming, and so handsome, and everybody falls for him, I just thought it would be interesting to write about someone who wasn’t particularly motivated by that sort of thing. It really isn’t a part of his life. Because of that, he doesn’t care: he’ll seduce men, women, whomever it takes in order to get ahead. Typically, in a novel like this, the Maurice character would be very sexual. He’s just not. He’s really only interested in presenting a successful front to the world. So that leaves the question: What is wrong with him? What is missing in his life that he needs to do these things?

Kate: His ruthlessness doesn’t become totally clear until Edith’s narrative, because he plays that charm and successful front to his advantage. No one except for him knows that it’s a front.

Boyne: He gets worse as it goes along. In the first part he is manipulating Erich. There is the issue of Maurice taking a story from someone else’s life and using it. If someone tells you a story, are you really allowed to use it? The question of ownership is a theme that runs through the book. But as he gets older, he certainly gets much more malevolent. When his wife is proving much more successful than him, he simply cannot cope.

Kate: As the novel progresses, Maurice’s charm erodes and he plays up his charm less; he begins to be more forthrightly cruel with people. I was totally disgusted with him as a character, but fascinated at the same time by what he would do next. Was that your intention with his character arc?

Boyne: I wanted the reader to keep turning the page. How far would Maurice go? I wanted the reader to be almost charmed by him as well, in a sort of Talented Mr. Ripley way where the antihero is also the main character. You wonder exactly how far he’ll go and whether he’ll get away with it, and whether his success is ultimately completely up to him or not. I didn’t really want the reader to hate Maurice, but I wanted them to be intrigued by him and really fascinated to see whether he would ultimately get his comeuppance.

Kate: Well, I did actually sort of hate him [laughter], but I also wanted to keep reading to see what he would do next! Right before he was going to do something terrible, I found myself shouting at the characters. It felt very participatory, like in a horror movie when the girl is running up the stairs and we all know the killer is up there. Is that what you were hoping to achieve?

Boyne: You want that. You want your readers to be so intrigued by the characters that they keep reading. The best thing you can say about a book, really, is that it’s a page-turner. I think the reader in every book participates in that sort of way when they are emotionally invested in the story.
Kate: I want to go back to what you were saying about ownership of someone’s story and at what point it becomes okay for that story to become an author’s work. How do you approach that in your own writing?

Boyne: I think it depends on the circumstance. If you’re having a conversation with me and telling me a story about something that you haven’t written it down, I think it’s kind of fair game. I wouldn’t do that with someone in my family, if they told some very personal story — I wouldn’t use it as a basis for a book. But if I hear an interesting anecdote — I’ve done this many times, I’m sure, consciously or not — where something has happened that I think would make a good scene or part of a book, I might use it in some way.

Kate: In Erich’s section, it seems like he can tell that Maurice is trying to draw the story out of him and in return he slowly parcels out his story to Maurice. Do you think that he’s conscious of the fact that Maurice is using him?

Boyne: I don’t think he knows it as such, but he’s not innocent, Erich. While Maurice is using him, certainly, to get ahead, to get a story, and to get a novel written, Erich is using Maurice as well. He’s drawn to him, he’s attracted to him, and he wouldn’t have necessarily taken him on as his assistant if he didn’t look like how Maurice looks. So for all of Erich’s pain at the end, he is kind of complicit in his own downfall.

Kate: Have you met people like Maurice — maybe less ruthless — in your own writing career?

Boyne: [Laughs] Yeah, I’ve met a few. I’m sure we all have in whatever industry we work in. You meet people that will attach themselves to you in some way, or build a flawed friendship based on what they think you can do for them. Sometimes we’re flattered by that, aren’t we? When someone takes an interest in us and then eventually maybe we realize they’re only interested in us so that we can introduce them to this person or that person to help them to get ahead. One asks, Why was I being so naïve as to think otherwise?

Kate: As a bookseller, I love that on your website you have a “What I’m Reading” page. It’s not something I often see authors do. What prompted you to share your current booklist with others?

Boyne: A lot of my time is spent enthusing about books. I love telling people about books that I’ve enjoyed and I like recommending books and reviewing books, and if somebody likes my books, then they may be interested in what I’m reading or share my taste in literature. I think it’s kind of fun and I’d be interested in learning what my favorite writers are reading. If you can give a plug to something you’ve enjoyed and it helps that author sell a few more books, then all well and good.

Kate: What’s next on your reading list?

Boyne: At the moment I’m reading The Nix by Nathan Hill and am enjoying that a lot, it’s quite good. Before that I read Bridge of Clay, the new Markus Zusak novel, which is just fantastic. Maybe the best book I’ve read this year. John Boyne was born in Ireland in 1971. He is the author of eleven novels for adults, five for young readers, and a collection of short stories. Perhaps best known for his 2006 multi-award-winning book The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, John’s other novels, notably The Absolutist and A History of Loneliness, have been widely praised and are international bestsellers. Most recently, The Heart's Invisible Furies was a Richard & Judy Bookclub word-of-mouth bestseller. His novels are published in over 50 languages. A Ladder to the Sky is his most recent book.